Telestial Redemption and Woman

"The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt." (Alma 11:43)

"Brethren and sisters, this represents the telestial kingdom, or the world in which we now live." (Temple Endowment Ceremony)

If we inherit Telestial glory, and a Telestial redemption is to be brought back into a another tabernacle, then how are we "brought to stand before God", even as we now are with our bodies? When and how can that happen?

"And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul." (D&C 88:12)

It would seem that any resurrection is a redemption. (see article Redemption of the Soul.)

When is it, that we are already aware of, that it can be said that "both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame" for the redemption of a Telestial being?

Where is the body when it goes through such tribulation that it can be said in perfect symbolism to be born again? And be clean, whole, pure, and holy and in need of no baptism? Who, with great sacrifice, participates in this great sacrifice?

What if overwhelming sickness at the beginning of this process is a kindred reaction of the trauma of coming into God's presence, or at least a symbol?

What causes the lake of fire and brimstone? By being brought into the presence of God? Does that mean that when you come into his presence and have a "bright recollection of all our guilt" you are always forgiven?1

What if it's saying that when we receive our bodies in our mother's womb, we come into the presence of God, and by coming into his presence, He always forgives us and makes us clean, pure, holy and something parents should emulate. Which would be why little children who die are saved. They have entered into His presence.

One round goes seamlessly into another.

Instead of looking for an additional time when the spirit and body are brought together to be judged, they come forth in a time we are already very familiar with, which is filled with symbolism of redemption in the mother.

The mother's sacrifice at birth represents Christ's travail in Gethsemane, and that's how they come—redeemed in a garden paradise state into a new life.

The spirit and body are reunited either at or sometime after conception. At that time they are brought into the presence of Christ. The turmoil and trauma of that event represented by the near universal nausea of the other. The completion of it, or birth process where the mother is nigh unto death and sometimes does die, also being a symbol of the atonement and forgiveness of the being brought forth into the world. The process repeated for each new child. Thus all things testify of Christ and his redemption. They are brought into His presence the same way as Lamoni and his wife and others who fell to the ground. It was in the body, but it was a private event.

"That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory; For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified." (Moses 6:59-60)

So water, blood and spirit could be both literal of the physical mother and child, as well as a symbol of what is really going on above, at or near the moment.

"...the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple..." (Malachi 3:1)

The placenta is in the shape and form of a tree, as in a tree of life.

The woman's reproductive organs are in the shape of a ram's head. 

"And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son." (Genesis 22:13)

Water, wine, milk.

Bless God for his goodness to us.

If Christ is the resurrection, and he saw what the Father did, then is the remaining/residual effect of the Father's sacrifice which Christ witnessed what enables the resurrection and redemption of our current existence? Is Christ's work as the Father finished when every last soul is redeemed, even the Telestial, even though they do not yet possess their souls? Does their work overlap? Are we being resurrected into a Telestial kingdom while a new "first resurrection" begins? The last resurrection from the previous Savior finishes while the first resurrection of the new one begins.

I've been praying and pondering on this one for a long time. I think I've finally made some headway. I felt like I got an answer, a number of months ago, that a Telestial resurrection is a birth into a new probation. After prayer one night that idea was in my mind the next morning. But I didn’t trust it completely because I couldn’t reconcile it. It's almost like I had to go through a waiting period.

Thinking of all this and the baptizing of little children makes the "solemn mockery" of it all the more meaningful to me.

Women should trust that God is good. Don't fear you are lesser. You are intimately tied to the plan of redemption and are a type of Christ yourself as you bring children into the world. What have men offered? Apostasy, rejection of truth, war, carnage? You ought not think of you place as lower, instead you should fear that the man may not make it to where you are. Trust God. Fear not to offer sacrifice. It is safe to place your faith in Them, though we don't know all the answers. He honors you in inexplicably deep ways.

See 10th Parable.

"Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God." (D&C 93:38)

  "...thou hast covered me in my mother's womb" (Psalm 139:13)



1. "In most cases it is our disrespect for ourselves that impedes coming to Him. We tend to think we aren't good enough. However, because He is quick to forgive sins, it really doesn't matter if you are not good enough. One of the first orders of business when you come into His presence is that He forgives you. He cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance, but He has the capacity and the ability to forgive sin. Therefore although your sins may be as scarlet, He can, He will and He does, make you white as snow, no longer accountable for your limitations. Therefore you needn't fear, but you can approach boldly, our Lord." (Denver Snuffer, Christ, Lecture 7 Ephraim, Utah)

"Easier than drinking water."


See Also

"He remarked that the disappointment of hopes and expectations at the resurrection, would be indescribably dreadful." (JS, WJS) Note that the "lake of fire and brimstone" happens at the ressurection.